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	<title>Comments on: Theology Committee</title>
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		<title>By: Angelika</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Angelika]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Bibel in gerechter Sprache&quot; (german): &quot;To stress the central content of the kingdom of god and prevent mistaking connotations with today&#039;s outward forms of monarchy, the term in our bible is also translated to &#039;gerechte Welt&#039;, &#039;Welt Gottes&#039; (&#039;fair world&#039;, &#039;world of god&#039;) etc.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bibel in gerechter Sprache&#8221; (german): &#8220;To stress the central content of the kingdom of god and prevent mistaking connotations with today&#8217;s outward forms of monarchy, the term in our bible is also translated to &#8216;gerechte Welt&#8217;, &#8216;Welt Gottes&#8217; (&#8216;fair world&#8217;, &#8216;world of god&#8217;) etc.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Basileia - the kingdom (?) of God &#171; Ecumenical Women at the United Nations</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Basileia - the kingdom (?) of God &#171; Ecumenical Women at the United Nations]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] our considerations for the opening worship. So, if you want, please comment on this site or check this and let us know what you [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our considerations for the opening worship. So, if you want, please comment on this site or check this and let us know what you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Seiple</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Seiple]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s unclear to me just what the objection  to the old language &quot;Kingdom of God&quot; is -- I&#039;m not sure if the objection concerns the gender issue or the imperial issue.  (Maybe both at once?) I personally find the language congenial as it stands.  It seems to me, as I think it does to J.S., that the use of language which alludes to (even mimics) structures of oppression can actually underscore the contrast.  (If you don&#039;t have a point of contact, you don&#039;t HAVE any interesting contrast.)    This is a common literary device, but a political one as well: think of the change in tone accompanying the gay community&#039;s embrace of the derogatory word &quot;Queer&quot; -- once an epithet uttered only on the lips of homophobes, it has been reappropriated by the victimized.  So too with &quot;Kingdom&quot; or &quot;reign&quot; even &quot;Empire&quot; -- the contrast is emphasized by the irony of its reappropriated use.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s unclear to me just what the objection  to the old language &#8220;Kingdom of God&#8221; is &#8212; I&#8217;m not sure if the objection concerns the gender issue or the imperial issue.  (Maybe both at once?) I personally find the language congenial as it stands.  It seems to me, as I think it does to J.S., that the use of language which alludes to (even mimics) structures of oppression can actually underscore the contrast.  (If you don&#8217;t have a point of contact, you don&#8217;t HAVE any interesting contrast.)    This is a common literary device, but a political one as well: think of the change in tone accompanying the gay community&#8217;s embrace of the derogatory word &#8220;Queer&#8221; &#8212; once an epithet uttered only on the lips of homophobes, it has been reappropriated by the victimized.  So too with &#8220;Kingdom&#8221; or &#8220;reign&#8221; even &#8220;Empire&#8221; &#8212; the contrast is emphasized by the irony of its reappropriated use.</p>
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		<title>By: christianalbers</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[christianalbers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I found John Wycliffe&#039;s translation from 1383 on http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/Luk.txt. Hes doesn&#039;t say kingdom but rather an old version of realm or reign or so.
 
20 And he was axid of Farisees, whanne the rewme of God cometh. And he answerde to hem, and seide, The rewme of God cometh not with aspiyn. Obviously the old English term for &quot;realm&quot; or &quot;reign&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found John Wycliffe&#8217;s translation from 1383 on <a href="http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/Luk.txt" rel="nofollow">http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/Luk.txt</a>. Hes doesn&#8217;t say kingdom but rather an old version of realm or reign or so.</p>
<p>20 And he was axid of Farisees, whanne the rewme of God cometh. And he answerde to hem, and seide, The rewme of God cometh not with aspiyn. Obviously the old English term for &#8220;realm&#8221; or &#8220;reign&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pirjo-Liisa Penttinen,  YWCA of Finland</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pirjo-Liisa Penttinen,  YWCA of Finland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Short reflection to Your theme on Kingdom… 

Finnish  language has only  one word for “he” and “she”.  if You  want to know is someone  he or she,  You  have to  use names or other indications, like clearly  saying  “man” or “woman”.  We do not have articles either and we build the  words with various endings, having 15  cases for a none.   

Kingdom of God  is translated “Jumalan valtakunta”,  “God’s reign”  - not  mentioning anything about king or queen. The  word says also that God is having “ power over  everything”.  God is able to  exercise power over  everything created. 

Would be interesting to carry on, but  this  is in my  mind just now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Short reflection to Your theme on Kingdom… </p>
<p>Finnish  language has only  one word for “he” and “she”.  if You  want to know is someone  he or she,  You  have to  use names or other indications, like clearly  saying  “man” or “woman”.  We do not have articles either and we build the  words with various endings, having 15  cases for a none.   </p>
<p>Kingdom of God  is translated “Jumalan valtakunta”,  “God’s reign”  &#8211; not  mentioning anything about king or queen. The  word says also that God is having “ power over  everything”.  God is able to  exercise power over  everything created. </p>
<p>Would be interesting to carry on, but  this  is in my  mind just now.</p>
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		<title>By: christianalbers</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[christianalbers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you all of you for your contributions. This is very helpful for us. Please fell free to let your friends and colleagues know about our site!

J.S. I appreciate your very fine distinctions. Empire of God would be a translation taking up the context of the Roman empire and enlighten the subversive use of that term by Jesus. And in many languages, such as German (=Reich Gottes), this term is used as the traditional translation for basileia.

Thank you, O.S. for your French translation. On a website I found &quot;Empreinte de Dieu&quot; ( http://stranzblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/feminist-theology-with-regula-strbel.html ), which is something like &quot;imprint of God&quot;. Have you heard that before? To me, an imprint doesn&#039;t seem to be enough for another world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all of you for your contributions. This is very helpful for us. Please fell free to let your friends and colleagues know about our site!</p>
<p>J.S. I appreciate your very fine distinctions. Empire of God would be a translation taking up the context of the Roman empire and enlighten the subversive use of that term by Jesus. And in many languages, such as German (=Reich Gottes), this term is used as the traditional translation for basileia.</p>
<p>Thank you, O.S. for your French translation. On a website I found &#8220;Empreinte de Dieu&#8221; ( <a href="http://stranzblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/feminist-theology-with-regula-strbel.html" rel="nofollow">http://stranzblog.blogspot.com/2007/12/feminist-theology-with-regula-strbel.html</a> ), which is something like &#8220;imprint of God&#8221;. Have you heard that before? To me, an imprint doesn&#8217;t seem to be enough for another world.</p>
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		<title>By: J.S.</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecumenicalwomen.wordpress.com/csw-52/theology/#comment-9</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could translate this word in a whole bunch of ways.  But the most important thing is to realize that God’s Kingdom/God’s reign (basileia) stands in contrast to another kingdom—not one governed by God, but by an emperor, namely the Roman Empire.   Unfortunately that’s gets lost in translation, not only textually but in context.  (Your question centers around text, I think context is essential.)

So in speaking of the Roman Kingdom in contrast to God’s Kingdom, and more importantly, bringing that into a modern and diverse world, we need to highlight the contrast between potentates that rule by force and God in Christ Jesus who suffers on a cross.  

I think the most helpful way to do that biblically (text and context) in the United States is to speak about a Roman Empire and the Empire of God.  By extension I think it helpful to talk about the Empire of the United States in contrast to the Empire of God. Or the Empire of the United Nations in contrast to the Empire of God, etc.  I very rich interpretive texture emerges if you do this the world over.

Hope this is helpful.  I realize I’m making a very fine distinction, but I think it is an essential distinction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could translate this word in a whole bunch of ways.  But the most important thing is to realize that God’s Kingdom/God’s reign (basileia) stands in contrast to another kingdom—not one governed by God, but by an emperor, namely the Roman Empire.   Unfortunately that’s gets lost in translation, not only textually but in context.  (Your question centers around text, I think context is essential.)</p>
<p>So in speaking of the Roman Kingdom in contrast to God’s Kingdom, and more importantly, bringing that into a modern and diverse world, we need to highlight the contrast between potentates that rule by force and God in Christ Jesus who suffers on a cross.  </p>
<p>I think the most helpful way to do that biblically (text and context) in the United States is to speak about a Roman Empire and the Empire of God.  By extension I think it helpful to talk about the Empire of the United States in contrast to the Empire of God. Or the Empire of the United Nations in contrast to the Empire of God, etc.  I very rich interpretive texture emerges if you do this the world over.</p>
<p>Hope this is helpful.  I realize I’m making a very fine distinction, but I think it is an essential distinction.</p>
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		<title>By: S.O.</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.O.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Is the word governance worth playing with? Not so monarchical as reign yet implying that there is an authority that may be either within us or beyond us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the word governance worth playing with? Not so monarchical as reign yet implying that there is an authority that may be either within us or beyond us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ecumenicalwomen.wordpress.com/csw-52/theology/#comment-7</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can of course talk about God&#039;s reign in  English but this still has the idea of a &quot;ruler&quot;, other ideas I&#039;ve heard played with are God&#039;s republic or God&#039;s commonwealth, God&#039;s participatory democracy doesn&#039;t work because the idea is that God&#039;s desire and plan for the world are other than human plans and challenging to our power politics - yet Jesus also says the Kingdom is with you.

There was  quite a lot written by feminist theologians about &quot;king&quot;dom -  reign may again work better. Some theologians would argue that there is a permanence in God&#039;s reign that human institutions don&#039;t have (whatever the Vatican may claim) I&#039;m not so convinced by that - our ideas about God and God&#039;s reign change over time but it is also one of the things that makes it quite tricky in ecumenical settings.

Anyway I rather like the idea that just as there is a transcendent and immanent side to our experience of God there is also an &quot;otherness&quot; and &quot;within you&quot; aspect to the commonwealth of God (Just to be clear I use the word commonwealth more in the sense of Cromwell than as the current group of former British colonies.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can of course talk about God&#8217;s reign in  English but this still has the idea of a &#8220;ruler&#8221;, other ideas I&#8217;ve heard played with are God&#8217;s republic or God&#8217;s commonwealth, God&#8217;s participatory democracy doesn&#8217;t work because the idea is that God&#8217;s desire and plan for the world are other than human plans and challenging to our power politics &#8211; yet Jesus also says the Kingdom is with you.</p>
<p>There was  quite a lot written by feminist theologians about &#8220;king&#8221;dom &#8211;  reign may again work better. Some theologians would argue that there is a permanence in God&#8217;s reign that human institutions don&#8217;t have (whatever the Vatican may claim) I&#8217;m not so convinced by that &#8211; our ideas about God and God&#8217;s reign change over time but it is also one of the things that makes it quite tricky in ecumenical settings.</p>
<p>Anyway I rather like the idea that just as there is a transcendent and immanent side to our experience of God there is also an &#8220;otherness&#8221; and &#8220;within you&#8221; aspect to the commonwealth of God (Just to be clear I use the word commonwealth more in the sense of Cromwell than as the current group of former British colonies.)</p>
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		<title>By: F.M.</title>
		<link>http://ecumenicalwomen.org/advocacy/csw-52/theology/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[F.M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Ufalme wa Mungu&quot; - Kiswahili from Tanzania
 
In Kiswahili there is no complication. It simply means the Reign of God, A God who rules every where and for ever.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ufalme wa Mungu&#8221; &#8211; Kiswahili from Tanzania</p>
<p>In Kiswahili there is no complication. It simply means the Reign of God, A God who rules every where and for ever.</p>
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